(no subject)

[nny]

The problem with SPN (the problem I'm going to talk about, because OMG there are so many problems) is that it's the Sam'n'Dean show. No big surprises there, right? Just, they've never managed to make it even slightly an ensemble. In NCIS - yes, I know, I'm so very obsessed - when one character is on the outs with another character they have someone else they can turn to about it, someone else who will offer them advice or make them laugh or even side against them, and the dynamics between the characters are always changing and shifting and it makes for interesting television.

In SPN we have... well. Sam and Dean. And then we have Bobby, who is... well he's kind of the gay best friend, right? He's there to listen to Dean angst and then give him a makeover and take him out on the town exposition and kick ass, and then he's back in his junkyard again. His small role in this - and awesome as he is, and as often as he is in it, it is a small role because he only does the same thing over and over - is done with. Likewise Castiel - we get him coming in all "Heeeere I come to save the day!" ... and I wish I hadn't typed that now because I have this really weird gay mountie porn with bondage and stockings and I really don't want that visual, thanks... and he kicks ass, talks obliquely about destiny, disappears. Which is why we have these repetitive scenes of Winchester angst at the end of every episode, because they don't have anyone else to talk to that counts. Dean stoics until his little face breaks, and then he bursts out I CAN'T TRUST YOU or I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TALK TO YOU or I WISH I COULD QUIT YOU (ahem I mean) and we know that the tension is tension in name only because who the hell else are they going to talk to?

Their relationship really doesn't have the space to evolve all that much because we need them to be together or the show can't really exist. They've already strained it as far as they can, surely? So the other option is cycling back to where they started, rebuilding the brother relationship, and that's just annoying to have come so far just to get back to the beginning again. There's that Pratchett quote about how coming back to where you started from isn't the same as never leaving, but I'm not sure that I trust SPN to get that right, just now.

I think the mythology on this show is interesting and there's a lot of meta that I'd love to read about it, although I suspect they might get entirely too careful now that the possibility of God is on the table, so I'm half-hoping they don't mention him by name - plausible deniability and all. I am still really massively fond of watching it, seriously. But at the same time I'm mostly watching right now for the imaginary relationship I'm trying to formulate between Dean and Castiel. (Although, I'll be honest, it doesn't need much imagining. Thank you, Misha.)

Oh, and? One more thing. The fangirl thing was vaguely amusing, in that there are those sorts of fangirls and we can probably recognise an aspect of that in ourselves to an extent. But Kripke really needs to recognise that since it is the Sam and Dean show, these people are his bread and butter. And that line you walk, between 'joking with' and 'mocking'? That's way too thin. Way too thin. He needs to be a little more careful.

In conclusion: I suck at talking about things coherently, and I'm in it for the Misha.

Yup.

Comments

[ladyflowdi.livejournal.com]

I agree with alllll of this. I think it's the reason I can't get into the show like I have with others in the past -- as much as I like the show, as fun and campy as it is, I thrive on ensemble shows. SGA, for example, and NCIS, where there are multiple characters with multiple, fluid relationships. Sam and Dean are great, but you're totally right, they have repetitive moments of angst because they have no one else to talk to. That's one thing I think Kripke et al have failed to do in the previous seasons -- bring in a strong supporting cast. Aside from Bobby and Castiel, who've they got? That doesn't fly with me, regardless of how angsty and awesome the writers think it is.

As for the fandom, dude, I can't do the Wincest thing, or even the RPS thing really, so the fandom holds zero interest for me. The show is just campy fun, and that's exactly how I watch it. If TV shows were food, Supernatural would be cherry cheesecake -- an absolute guilty pleasure, not at all necessary, and not something that has to be consumed every week. Last year I missed something like eight episode in the middle there somewhere, and just got caught up again recently. So, yeah.

(Also, the fangirl thing: Total LOL, even if I was horrified while LOLing. Oh, Kripke. I am convinced he trolls LJ, or at least the TWoP boards. Slash as mainstream: WEIRD.)

[mashimero.livejournal.com]

Yeah that's been my main problem with S4, and atm I don't think that's going to change in S5. I didn't have as much of a problem with it being the SamnDean show in S1/S2 because there wasn't quite as much angst. It was more of a MoTW show and it worked better that way I think. It was entertaining and lighthearted and fun!

[bansidhe]

The fangirl thing was vaguely amusing, in that there are those sorts of fangirls and we can probably recognise an aspect of that in ourselves to an extent. But Kripke really needs to recognise that since it is the Sam and Dean show, these people are his bread and butter. And that line you walk, between 'joking with' and 'mocking'? That's way too thin. Way too thin. He needs to be a little more careful.

Yes. This.
Thanks, 'Nny, you've just put coherent words to what was bothering me about the fangirl. (The start of the badfic scene was funny, but past that, I just started to get uncomfortable. And while there are fans like that out there... The majority aren't. Sigh.)

[dementedsiren.livejournal.com]

It seems a bit mean to say it, but I'm really hoping that Sam and Dean never get the close relationship back. I doubt the show will go there (because as dark as it gets, it always comes back to the redemptive power of their Great Brotherly Love), but I'd be fascinated to see what happens if the gap were to widen. Possibly, at the end, after saving the world, they look at each other and realize that what they've been through has changed them, and there is no going back, and it breaks their hearts, but there you go and Dean runs off with Castiel to wash away the pain in vodka and sex.

But you are very right, the way they've written/developed the series has really limited the emotional arcs they can explore because if they do lose that primary "Sam'n'Dean" dynamic they sort of lose the show. Hm.