PTerryness.

[nny]

I slept last night. Which, for those of you that might hang around on street corners YM! will know, was a novelty. Mmmm, sleep. I'm pretty sure I had good dreams, too, and they were probably surreal, but I have no idea what they were other than happy.

Had my test on Pronunciation of English yesterday, and I think I did pretty well- at least on the translation and transcribing. This is due, in part, to copperbadge, whose Snupin I was transcribing phonetically all morning. Cheers Sam. Though I was giggling quite a lot when I was translating...

Just finished reading Monstrous Regiment.


I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it yet. I should probably read it again before making judgements... but, y'know, screw it.

Over all, I did enjoy the book. It had a good story, some genuinely chilling, thrilling parts, and a few bits that made me shove a hand in my mouth to prevent myself exploding with laughter at 4am. (The ornithology footnote, anyone?)

I cheered when Otto appeared. I loved the Truth, and I was genuinely excited that they were in the book. And, naturally, any Vimes completely makes my day. I was disappointed that there wasn't *more* Vimes- the Watch books are my favourites as a set, and Night Watch would probably be my overall favourite book. Initially I was a major fan of all of the Vetinari/Vimes interaction, but over the books Vimes has been become more and more fleshed out... I just adore his character. Even though he was only briefly in MR, the scenes he had counted.

But... there was something a little empty about it, for me. I may change my mind over further readings, but... it didn't have the immediate emotional impact of other books by PTerry. Possibly it's because I was having a little trouble keeping everyone's names straight at the beginning. As they were being referred to by first names, surnames and nicknames by turns, I got slightly confused. It'll make more sense on another reading.

It also doesn't help that I haven't seen Platoon, Apocalypse Now, or whatever else PTerry happened to be referencing. I've never been a major war film fan.

It rang a little hollow. I wanted to be amazingly moved by the part where Polly finds Paul, and he's drawing. I felt like it should be a moment where I teared up. There *was* a feeling of vague happiness, but largely I was just feeling... meh. It seems a shame, because other Discworld books- "In this time, and in this place..." for instance- I was biting my lip, pain in my chest, as I tried not to well up. I wish I had cared more about the characters, but I really didn't.

So all round, I remain unconvinced. It's a genuinely good book, and I will read it again, of course. But it won't be one of my favourites.

Oh, and I thought Maladict should've been a boy.


I'd be interested in hearing what anyone else has to say about it, because I've never had anyone to discuss Discworld with just after I've finished a book, before. *g*

Comments

[wikdsushi.livejournal.com]

http://www.livejournal.com/users/wikdsushi/262495.html

My comment on the Maladict/Maladicta issue. *eg*

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Ha! I like that a lot. I was just about to go back and read this, now that I've finished.

I just... Maladict never acted like a girl. And I don't mean that in a sexist way- it's just patterns of speech, things that were said... to my mind, he came across as a particular brand of OOC fanon-Draco that I will accept, despite my protestations about OOCness. If that makes any sense.

It seemed like an afterthought to make it Maladicta, really. Vaguely unnecessary. I don't know why, but it felt like a disappointment.

Of course, now there're femme-plotbunnies running around in my head...

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Well, I pretty much agree completely :-)

I enjoyed this book (any Pterry is good Pterry,) but I found there was really too little space to develop both the plot and all the characters, so I didn't really overly empathize with of the girls - Not like in the Watch books where the storylines have gotten more emotional as the characters have become more familiar (Night Watch, now there was an emotional experience.)

And yeah, I really wanted Maladict to be the only guy. Prissy and "elegant" as hell, but male.

I liked the Vimes scenes as well, and wished there could have been more. Vetinari's really rubbing off on him *winkwinknudgenudge,* especially with the bit about the flour. I wonder if, in the future, we'll be treated to a story where Vetinari is displaced (once again) and expressly leaves Vimes in charge as temporary Patrician (with Carrot backing him up, of course.)

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Wow. I'd really like to see that happen. Vetinari would probably do it just to piss people off, because he does so like that, and Vimes is so very good at it.

I half-formulated a V/V at one point, which involved Vetinari getting very, *very* angry when Vimes died, because Vimes was no longer there to do it for him. Because the way I see it, Vimes is like his stress relief. (No, not like that. Not that I'm arguing against the V/V, obviously. Bear with me here. *g*) He uses Vimes because he's not in a position where he *can* get angry with people. He's constrained by his position, and is unable to make a difference. So he subtly directs Vimes, and watches the carnage with a raised eyebrow and the slightest suggestion of a smirk.

I'm not saying anything new here, I realise. I can't remember what my point was, either. Bollocks. Hang on. =) Uuuum... yeah, basically I was saying that that'd make a good story. *g* I just happened to do it in a particularly long-winded way.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Also, I see your point about the characterisation issue. Because... Vimes was in it for maybe... ten pages in all? And every bit of him was quintessentially Vimes. He says something, and we instantly know precisely what he means, whether he's being sarcastic, whether he's sniggering quietly to himself... all the books beforehand mean that we know him. So it's difficult to be quite as enthusiastic about new characters, and PTerry has a difficult job in this respect.

I'd like to see stories about characters we've heard about before, who didn't have big parts.

Like Andre. I'd love to read a Watch story only vaguely connected to the main Watch group. So a story, say, about the Cable Street Particulars, and a case involving them, with maybe a couple of appearances from Vimes, Carrot etc.

I guess that's pretty much what he was trying to do with MR, so I'm not sure why it didn't work. It worked in Wee Free Men; only a brief mention of Granny, and the Feegles we've seen before. Yet it worked so much better. Hmmm. That's something I must ponder. *g*

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Wow. I'd really like to see that happen.

Oh, so would I - and since Vetinari getting impeached is a staple of the Watch books, I'm really hoping it will happen. Vetinari lets Vimes in on a lot of his trade secrets, and Vimes sure does learn from them. The Sam Vimes of Guards!Guards! is definitely not the same Vimes of Night Watch - and it's not just Sybil's influence what's done it ;-) If they weren't the same age, it would almost appear that Vetinari was grooming Vimes as a successor.

I agree entirely regarding the "stress relief." Is it in Feet of Clay where Drumknott remarks something like, "It occurs to me that if Commander Vimes didn't exist, you would have had to invent him," and Vetinari replies, "You know, Drumknott, I rather think I did." Vimes is truly Vetinari's terrier all the way, and Vetinari obviously finds Vimes' directness and low tolerance for politics very refreshing.

They've got an...interesting relationship. Followed closely by that of Vetinari and Leonard, and Vetinari and Drumknott. I've got a Vetinari/Drumknott/Leonard story outlined on my harddrive that I haven't touched in over a year, but that I hope will have magically finished itself by the next time I check ;-)

[sophistry]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who went all squeeful when Otto turned up. I wuv that little guy.

And it seems to be a general opinion that Maladict should have been a boy, and I agree. It did jut seem a little like beating a dead horse - the gag had run it's course by then, the punchline being Blouse passing himself off as a woman.

True, not my favourite of the books, but between Maladict, Otto, and Vimes, I think I can live with it. ;p

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

I quite enjoyed The Truth, which did the same thing - having brief bits with the Watch and the Patrician. I especially loved William's view of Vimes, which we, as faithful readers, knew to be way off. And the way that Angua's taking after Vimes makes itself evident. I'd be interested to see it done again, especially in a story set in Ankh-Morpork. I think maybe that's one of the reasons I didn't like MR so much. In The Fifth Elephant we had the same sort of scenery change, but it was from Vime's perspective which made it a lot more interesting.

Oh, and I loved Wee Free Men - a bit of Granny goes a long way ;-) I believe the next Discworld coming out is another Tiffany book. Wasn't expecting to like that character so much, but I adored her by the second chapter.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I'd be interested in the V/D/L story if you ever get it done. Or if you wanna cookie me. *g*

copperbadge wrote a good Vetinari/Drumknott called "Mentor" which I liked.

Also... I'm intrigued by the character mentioned oh-so-briefly in Night Watch- Winder's assistant, who went on to work for Snapcase. Seemed terribly familiar, though I'm not entirely sure who it was he reminded me of.

Since I see Drumknott as being very much younger than Vetinari, perhaps it was his father as a reasonably young man? I like to speculate. *g*

I also have a bizarre urge to slash Drumknott/Andre, and have been trying to think of a way to do it. Very sketchy outlin filed away in the back of my mind, which I bring out to play with occasionally.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Yes- I see the Ankh Morpork thing. That's what I was just thinking. Since it was in familiar surroundings, and there was interaction with many familiar characters even if they *were* only cameos... it felt more familiar, and I enjoyed it far more.

I love seeing Vimes through other peoples' eyes. That was one of my favourite parts of MR- when Polly's watching him crack up over Rust. I love the fact that they never see him as being as important as he is, and I think that's partly because I know it would please *him*. He doesn't *like* to be thought of as an authority figure- at least, not to the extent he is. He likes having immediate authority over a small group that he knows well. Likes having power over them through knowing their characters, secrets, and the way they will react. Which is partly why it would be so intriguing seeing him in charge of Ankh- it'd scare him shitless!

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

*lol* We're all off-kilter with our posts. Every time I finish writing one, there's a response to my last in my inbox!

Ooh, I'd be interested in the V/D/L story if you ever get it done.

I suppose I just might have to, after the Buggering Bee's done. It's one of those plotbunnies that just won't die, you know. It takes the idea that Leonard is like his double in our world, and was rather fond of the lads. When the latest Achemists' Guild building blows up, an old portfolio is found among the rubble. And who would these nude sketches be of? Vetinari of course :-) The pictures make the rounds of Ankh-Morpork, with the Times, the Watch, and Drumknott hot on the trail. *grin*

Drumknott/Andre, I would definitely read. I became quite fond of Drumknott in The Truth. Reminds me of Percy Weasley, but with a much better employer ;-)

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'll definitely be reading it again. I enjoyed it; I always enjoy them. PTerry's a fantastic writer, and I am in awe. Maladict, Otto and Vimes, and William of course... it's a good book.

Strange thing- when William's jodhpurs and leather coat were mentioned, I don't know why, but I had this sudden, surreal image of William as Hunter S. Thompson.

Fear and Loathing in Ankh Morpork, anyone?

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Which is partly why it would be so intriguing seeing him in charge of Ankh- it'd scare him shitless!

I agree - It would be great to read about him eventually trying to run the city like he runs the squad ;-) Burying the paperwork, having Carrot take care of practically everything, making awkward speeches, knocking some heads together and, in the end, getting things done.

Oh yeah, and putting that hosebag Rust in his place but good.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Wow. That story sounds brilliant. PLease, please, PLEASE! *g*

I think Drumknott's too wise to be as ambitious as Percy- at least outwardly. Vetinari wouldn't trust someone with too much ambition, so Drumknott would be careful to be quiet, efficient, and invisible. Which, I suppose, is why I immediately connect him with the clerk in Night Watch.

But I find Drumknott intriguing, and I'd definitely like to hear more about him.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Mm...yes, I agree he's definitely not as ambitious as Percy. Vetinari doesn't want another Lupine Wonse on his hands, and Drumknott strikes me more as the type of person who just likes to do his assigned job anal-retentively well. But when he's defending Vetinari in The Truth, it made me think of the Percy-Crouch parallels. Of course, Drumknott has the better reason to be loyal - and the cooler boss ;-)

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Urgh. Rust.

*runs off to shower*

I'd love to see Vimes shouting at Guild leaders as if they were recruits... though in this situation I almost regret that Downey replaced Cruces. Cruces would have had the better, more understated reaction to the jumped-up watchman trying to tell him what to do, I feel.

Shame he's dead, really.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I completely missed all previous MR discussions because I only read the book last weekend and didn't want to spoil it for myself, so thanks for the link. Nothing new to add here, since I mostly agree. Making Maladict a girl was an afterthought, and not a good one. And I'm so squeeing at the fact that there are so many Otto fans around. I so love Otto. I even found him vaguely sexy when I read The Truth. Erm.

Night Watch, though. I liked it a lot, but it also scared me. A lot. I haven't managed to re-read it yet. Is it me or are Pterry's books getting darker and more disturbing? I can't think of any particular aspects to illustrate it with, it's only a vague feeling.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

It's not just you- they're definitely getting a lot darker. The whole scene in the armoury in MR, with the old patched armour and "threeparts", various fairy tale aspects of Wee Free Men (frankly I'm very much afraid of the bumble bee women), and yes, Night Watch... there's more depth to them, I think. You can tell that Pterry's always learning, constantly improving at his craft, and that's one of the things that I like most about Discworld. It seems to be growing *with* me, so that as I grow older and appreciate more, so the books have more to offer me- the later ones have more than the early ones. I suppose it's because the characters have become more complex as their relationships and interactions have evolved through the books.

Definitely re-read Night Watch, though. I'm hoping that *someone* will be inspired to V/V... *g*