(no subject)

[nny]

Do you reckon it's the whole English Language degree thing that makes me so intolerant of badly written child-babble? Or just that it's really fuckin' annoying?

XD

soupytwist and I have just been chatting about character-wish-fulfillment-fic versus wish-fulfillment-fic. See, I read a final part to a fanfic that I've been vaguely enjoying, although this... the first part of it was by far the best, and that's because it was faintly angsty and bitchy and really brought the characters through to me. A couple of parts down the line and the characters really could have been anyone, because the author seemed more interested in portraying the relationship the way that they wanted rather than thinking about the characterisation. And for me, character voice is absolutely the most important thing, because I hate to be jarred out of a story.

So character-wish-fulfillment-fic will always be what I want to read and what I hope to write. The mindset of 'this is what the characters want, in my head, and this is what I'm going to write for them.' Fulfilling the character's wishes, according to the way they're written in the show, is more likely to end with a decently characterised fic.

The other side of it, the wish-fulfillment-fic, is more the thinking up of cute scenarios and then twisting the characters to fit. I have absolutely been unforgivably guilty of this, I won't deny that for a second. (Here's a secret - I'm really not a very good writer, yet. But I'm learning how to work on that). It can be done, don't get me wrong, it's just the way that it's done that grates.

I dunno. It's a whole issue - how far can you/should you extrapolate characterisation? Everyone sees the characters a certain way, and quite possibly I'm just bitching because this person's view didn't mesh with my own. I mean, if we're going to get high-horsey about it, every character I've ever written in slash has been wildly OOC because in canon they're not actually screwing whoever it is I've decided to ensure that they do. (Um. Especially, say, Scabbers. Or Kreacher. ¬_¬) There just seems to be a particular subset of romantic fic which ends up reading like some anonymous gay couple rather than the characters I know and love.

Ah well. To each his own; fanfic is, essentially, wish fulfillment. I'll just have to find authors who wish for intensely snarky fic in which any declarations of love are accidental and immediately retracted, in which feelings are never ever discussed unless there is enormous discomfort involved, and in which Rodney gets whumped at least a little. :D

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

No, that's a good way of putting it. Finding writers who slog through the difficulties of the character's wishes is hard, and I actually think very few people even realise (consciously) what's going on. On the surface people might talk about schmoop, crack, fluff and angst (and touch onto IC or OOC, which is even more subjective) but it does boil down to either molding the characters into generic gays to your liking, or wrestling with them most of they way ("Ok, John, you can do that and say that, I'll write 100 more pages, but you'll still have to fuck him in the end.")

[vimeslady.livejournal.com]

"There just seems to be a particular subset of romantic fic which ends up reading like some anonymous gay couple rather than the characters I know and love."

WORD! And that's something I find really annoying. Characterization is the most important aspect of fanfic to me. Of course we all have different interpretations, but those interpretations should be enough alike to be recognizable. And of course we have guys shagging people whom they hate in canon. But the challenge of a good writer is to make it seem like this is something that, although it didn't happen in canon, could have. And do that without making the character unrecognizable.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

That's an excellent explanation for why we write original fic. Then we have characters who want the things we want them to want, get no comments, feedback or recognition but at least know we're not betraying anyone's vision.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

... my icon thinks your icon is rly hot. XD

I have issues with the definition of crack, too, since I'm on bitchform. Crack is used to excuse a multitude of sins, and I think there should be a new term for the stuff that... somehow works. Really, really shouldn't, but does. People use 'AU' to describe too narrow a field, perhaps.

But yes, I'm all for the wrasslin'. And it's completely possible - you just have to look at, say, astolat's Beautiful Lifetime Event (if that's what it's called - I'm totally blanking on the name) or liviapenn's Small Primes and Square Roots to see that you can totally do the romantic story thing without sacrificing character on the altar of a happy ending.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

I'm a comment whore. I like attention. XD

*SHALLOW*

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

So do I. I don't seem to be getting any when I write original fic, so I fell back into the stupid fanfic pool and so far it's not involved anyone hurling bricks at my head. You asked why I stepped off the possibility of SGA fic a while back, and I suppose the answer is quite clear: you, and my other SGA-lovin', straight-talkin', homegirls. ;) I wouldn't want to cause disappointment.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, absolutely. I have so much respect for authors who can write whatever the hell they want with characters and still make it believable. Because I find it way easier to swallow **any** story so long as the characters are accurate. I will read the most farfetched AU and beam happily; I've read a story with John as a fairy, one with Rodney as a fairy, one based on ROBIN HOOD, and they were completely fantastic and enjoyable because it was them in that situation, completely.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

You remember the part where I gushed all over that one fic you wrote, right?

(I understand where you're coming from, though. I'm terrified of SG:A fandom, and have a list of AUs that I'd write if I weren't so scared. XD)

[soupytwist.livejournal.com]

I think you just keep using the word 'whump' to traumatise me. Heh.

Um, hi. *love*

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Jack's ex reminds me more and more of Kowalski, seriously. He's bigger and brunette, but he's got the same edge to him and sometimes has the same voice. Mmm.

And there was just the most unnecessary arm-rubbing of Donald ever. It's so cute I've watched it four times.

:D?

[villainny.livejournal.com]

(Pretend I said that with this icon)

[soupytwist.livejournal.com]

Always :D for you, darling! Yay unneccessary arm rubbing!

p.s. Life On Mars is amazing and omg next week they are BANK ROBBERS.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

Yeahbut ... I wrote two. :P

Also, Peebles is on BBC being adorable and injured again. What is it with him and facial injuries? Is this in his contract? His eyes! The blue!

[batyatoon]

I don't know about you, but I find badly written child-babble annoying because it makes me think the writer doesn't know any actual children, doesn't care to, and might not notice if you replaced the child-character with a Cabbage Patch doll.

-- That's if it's in a story where everything else is decently written, mind you. If it's all badly written, then it's nothing to do with the writer's perception of children.