(no subject)

[nny]

I have a badge on my bag which says 'hated by the Daily Mail'. I got it at WOMAD, and it really appealed to me. My parents read the Daily Mail, and I read it when I was younger for lack of any other news source, and it made me feel faintly sick. It wasn't as blatantly ridiculous as the Sun, but the morals and ideals it expressed weren't things I could agree with - double page spreads on how women who stay at home and have a family are, without exception, happier than those who have a career, for instance. Slightly difficult to swallow.

Thing is, I really do wish the badge were more true.

I'm bisexual, I make no secret of it online. It's a safe enough place to be so, especially in the areas of fandom I frequent, and that sometimes makes me forget that it's not quite the same in the world at large. I've never had a proper relationship, I've never had sex, I've never been successfully in love. I don't make a point of hiding my sexuality, but it's not something that ever really comes up because I'm not a particularly attractive person; I don't think people see me in a sexual way. I don't think I see myself that way, really. I have issues with trusting people and I don't think I could enter a relationship that wasn't based on it, so it's not something that's going to come up until I manage to gain some more confidence from somewhere. I am working on it, and I will continue to, and I think I'm doing better than I was, but it's not an issue right now.

But I've never embraced the gay lifestyle. I wouldn't even know where to begin, really; I suppose the Cardiff Mardi Gras would be a good place to start, but it rather intimidates me and I wouldn't want to go alone. I don't know whether I want to make a big deal of the fact that sometimes, yes, I do fancy girls... but then, I'm not sure how to proceed without doing so. My gaydar, while fully functioning when it comes to men, has absolutely no input about which girls I might have a chance with if approached. Regardless.

My concession is a rainbow friendship bracelet I made, and a rainbow 'pride' band that I got from soupytwist. More often than not I forget I'm wearing it, really - it's not so much a statement as it is absentmindedness - but I do remember to take it off when I go home. Because my siblings would ostracize me, and although I have told my mum, it makes her uncomfortable.

So how proud am I, really?

I suspect I'm exactly the kind of outsider the Daily Mail likes - quiet about it. Strictly behind closed doors.

*shrugs*

I don't really know what the point of this post was; sometimes I just make myself kind of frustrated.

Comments

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

Proud doesn't necessarily mean loud, love. The Daily Mail probably hates you more. It's not hard to mock one or two people who stand up and shout about what they believe. But it's the quiet, ceaseless shoving of ordinary people going about their lives without making either a big deal or a secret -- treating it as if it were, in fact, the mythical "normal" that the Daily Mail is so afraid you'll take from them -- is what will change the world. It's a slow change, but there you have it.

Proclaiming that any given group is "on the outside" is only a first step, after which one pushes to be accepted by making it impossible to be ignored through small acts -- a one-day protest in front of a shop is nothing compared to the continual presence of the protestors in the shop across the way, buying their milk and eggs from someone who doesn't use bigoted employment practices.

Bigotry only truly fails when people stop thinking of you as "the bisexual" and start thinking of you as Bethany, whether or not you wear the bracelets.

It's a bit like in Small Gods, when Om says "I like atheists -- they spend almost as much time making a big deal out of me as my followers. People who truly don't believe don't protest so much." If you are really proud, then you show it in your everyday actions, not in how many pride parades you attend or whether you embrace a "lifestyle" you may not even enjoy.

It's okay to be different and shy. *grins*

[darthrami.livejournal.com]

I'm the same way. Aside from not ever feeling really accepted by either group, gay or straight, even if I was 100% completely totally gay, I wouldn't go to the parades and the rallies and such (well, I've been to one once. meh.) because that's just not who I am. I don't have fun at those things. I'm not really overzealous, I don't get up in arms. It's a part of who I am - it's who I sleep with, or find attractive. It doesn't define my personality.


*shrugs*

Not that that there really had much of a point.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

And this, see, is why I love you and I miss you.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much where I stand, and I agree. The marches and suchlike... it's like very zealous Christians, I suppose. I've never been the type to get behind something so absolutely, because whether or not I'm in love with a girl, there is more to me than that. I never wanted my life to revolve around my lovelife or lack thereof, and if I'm not getting laid, even more so.

XD

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

Well, I am the greatest. *grins and hugs*

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Hey now, overemotional effusion is no excuse to go getting a swelled head.

*grins, also, and hugs right back*

[rimestock.livejournal.com]

There was a time, about a year ago, that I attempted to be bisexual. It didn't work out as well as it might have, although it also probably didn't work out as badly as it could have. It helped me clarify where I stand on the spectrum, at least.

I haven't told my parents, because I don't have a damn clue how they'll react, and my only guess is based off a conversation almost four years ago in which I uttered the phrase "come out of the closet" in reference to something that had nothing to do with my sexuality, and had my mother express relief that I wasn't telling her I was gay. I can't afford to live on my own, right now, especially since I don't even have a car of my own, and if I get kicked out of the house I'm basically screwed when it comes to getting to classes twenty-five miles away.

On the other hand, actively embracing celibacy is maybe not such a bad thing. Girls in love with girls are beautiful; so are boys in love with boys, and boys in love with girls, and girls in love with boys. Because love is beautiful.

I just get irritable when everyone around me is getting some and I'm not, I suppose. No matter what the orientation. Also there's the bit where I live in Kansas, and... they don't do gay, out here. Not unless you're up in the relative big cities up north; Kansas City, Lawrence (home of the University of Kansas), Manhattan (home of the Kansas State University). Small towns in Kansas just... don't do gay at all, really.

Or much of anything at all.

(And people wonder why the vast majority of my social life is on the Internet, where I can find people capable of expressing opinions reasonably, etc. etc. etc...)

[rimestock.livejournal.com]

PS: I had a point I swear.

If I find it, I'll bring it back.

[soupytwist.livejournal.com]

*attempts some kind of actual answer*

Y'know, you don't have to be all proud. I'd think that being actively ashamed would be a bad thing, but despite what a few people seem to imply, waving rainbow flags and stuff all the time is simply not do-able for most people, and there's plenty of others who don't particularly want to for a thousand other reasons than being ashamed. In the long-term, it's the quietly doing your own thing that people generally are after; the same level of loud and proud isn't something that can really be kept up all that long. There might be some people who'd still want the parades and stuff, but not wanting that doesn't make you a bad person. If you really feel badly about it then maybe dropping a few more "oh, eliza dushku's hot" into conversation when you can would be a plan, but otherwise, I don't think it's worth worrying about. There's lots of ways to be queer, and just because yours is a quieter one doesn't mean it's not valid or that you fail or anything. Not everybody's either able or willing to do the big activism-leadership bit, and as long as you're not decrying gayness from the rooftops then I think you're doing OK. :)

*hugs*

(And dude, I so have the same thing with gaydar. I'm good at guessing which guys aren't straight, but am absolutely hopeless when it comes to girls. It's very sad.)

[in-the-blue.livejournal.com]

I think... all of life is kind of like a meandering stream, and we take whatever path we take to get where we're going, and there's no one in a position of authority standing at any of the twists or turns telling us we're making a wrong turn.

So.

I guess... who cares what anyone else thinks you should do? Do things your way because they're yours to do and... that will be what's right for you.

And also? Everyone's attractive. Everyone. In some way or another, they are.

[ms-ntropy.livejournal.com]

You, my dear lady, are not alone.

A recent relationship with a very good friend is the only reason my family knows at all. I wanted to give them a slight heads up so as to curtail any potential screaming.

The question I was most asked was, "How long as this been going on?"
Uh....from the get go? Then they wanted to know why I hadn't spoken of it before, which is sadly far more complicated.

The reasons why I'd never before brought it up are many, ranging from the honest: It didn't seem all that important, to the inane: I didn't like the idea of you lot thinking of me having sex, which is the first thing you would all think of if I brought a girl home.

Of course, then there's the whole idea where I think "bisexual" is a misnomer for me. At no point in my entire history of self awareness have I ever been attracted to gender. I mean, parts are nice and all, but I've never found someone physically attractive who wasn't already attractive for some other reason.

My train of thought is quickly derailing due, in part, to the small size of this here comment box. So I'll just leave what I've written as that and abstain from further comment. Though I would like to reiterate that you, m'dear, are not alone.

[illmantrim.livejournal.com]

I think... just beuing is a good thing sometimes. That knowing who you are and what you are,and not neccessarily having a plan? Isnt a bad thing. Sometimes it is enough to just be who you are, just know, and to go on that way, without ever starting to Do anything. Pride doesnt lay in actions enccessarily, but in self, and in thinking. I am me.

IMHO.

[venivincere]

I'd date you in two shakes if I lived on the other side of The Pond. You tell it like it is; that's attractive.

[dopplegl.livejournal.com]

This is a pointless comment to add, but I just want to say that what you two have described is exactly how I feel about it.

Glad to know it's not just me.

[the-gentleman.livejournal.com]

Hey, just because something's a core part of you, doesn't mean you have to be active in the community other people have created for it. Otherwise I'd have to still be in the Christian Union and the LBGT Union at uni, neither of which I found helpful at all.

Besides, being hated by the Daily Mail is easy. The Independent, that's the hard one. ;)

[halfwest.livejournal.com]

I'm bisexual, I make no secret of it online. It's a safe enough place to be so, especially in the areas of fandom I frequent, and that sometimes makes me forget that it's not quite the same in the world at large. I've never had a proper relationship, I've never had sex, I've never been successfully in love. I don't make a point of hiding my sexuality, but it's not something that ever really comes up because I'm not a particularly attractive person; I don't think people see me in a sexual way. I don't think I see myself that way, really. I have issues with trusting people and I don't think I could enter a relationship that wasn't based on it, so it's not something that's going to come up until I manage to gain some more confidence from somewhere. I am working on it, and I will continue to, and I think I'm doing better than I was, but it's not an issue right now.

Ditto to ALL that. I'm not quite as open about it online, but I don't consider it a secret. I just don't talk about it, really.

I don't make concessions, though. I don't have that option. My father is RADICALLY homophobic, and while my mother likes to tell her kids she loves us all no matter what, I don't believe that knowing her eldest daughter is bisexual with a distinctly preferring-females bent would be any asset to her mental stability. Just one more thing for her to worry over. And yes, I have never had a close relationship of that kind with anyone, so I don't feel it matters.

I'd totally date you if I didn't live across an ocean from you, though. You rock. :)

[charon47.livejournal.com]

Urm, I don't really know why I'm commenting to be completely honest. We don't really know eachother, I have seen (and like) your work in fandom and, obviously, milliways, heh. Infact I was looking to see if you had an archive of fic when your post caught my eye and really struck a note.

There is a club in london, which I'm sure you've heard of, called G.A.Y. I've yet to go though I hope to soon, but word of mouth has it that it's quite relaxed. Not as... overt as some gay pride events. More just like a normal club really, or so I've heard anyhow. It's the furthest I've got in a year's worth of trying to find a solution to the 'no-gaydar-but-like-girls-too' thing. Though it may not be the ideal way to strike up a relationship, it may well improve the whole gaydar/confidence situation.

I guess what I mainly wanted to say was that you're not alone. Something your friends have already said in the other comments now I've looked through them. ;) Still, I'll post this anyway as it's always reassuring to know there are other people out there with similar thoughts. Er, sorry for the long comment! *runs away*

[kenovay.livejournal.com]

not a particularly attractive person

Lie.

[metallumai.livejournal.com]

Wear the button, and the bracelet. I think, to be honest, that the 'lifestyle' wouldn't exist as a LIFESTYLE if gays and lesbians weren't disapproved of and suppressed. All that secret code business, it's like any subversive group-- there's strength in numbers, and then you get a group identified by its major characteristic, which is always unfair to its members.

The lifestyle is defence, I think. Some people need it-- it's the only way they know to meet people. (and maybe some even enjoy it, though it would make me tired.)

[villainny.livejournal.com]

*grins*

Points are unnecessary when there is support. Thank you, dear. And I'm sorry you live somewhere narrowminded - I forget how lucky I am, sometimes, I guess.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

(well, if it helps, I'm bi... XD)

I'm never ashamed of being bi, ever, it's just a non-issue. If it comes up in conversation then I'll tell people, yes, but I don't go out of my way more because I forget who I've told. It just feels somehow... furtive, when I mention I find girls hot. And it's odd because I feel like there should be more of a reaction, even as I'm hoping there's not.

I guess the issue is that much as I attempt to put it across that way, it's not really normal to me. It still feels slightly odd, even though I know that this is true. Possibly it's religious upbringing, or the state of society; I'm probably a lot more secure and confident about it than many because I've been a slasher since the age of thirteen.

Maybe we should recommend it as a good way of adjusting. *grins*

[villainny.livejournal.com]

*snugs*

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Heee, everyone's attractive to someone. I just seem to attract weirdos.

Thanks, lovely. I suspect I'm coping okay, I just... feel as though I'm betraying something by not being a part of a scene. But it's not like I've ever been hugely sociable, or anything, so it would be weirder if I were, I guess. Like I was pretending to be something I'm not.

I'm honest, I'm just quiet. XD

[villainny.livejournal.com]

It's good to know. The not-alone thing.

Me, I told my mum because I'd always told myself that I wouldn't make an issue of it until it became one... and then I fell in love. It didn't work out, but it didn't make it any less true, and it felt kinda like a betrayal of the person to hide that. But I don't make a big deal of it because it's not a big deal - it's not as though I'm ever in relationships anyway. I have no overwhelming desire to march about with a flag and inform the world that yes, in fact, I'm getting rejected by both genders. XD

*hugs very much*

You're a fantastic person, love. Thanks.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

*grins*

Thank you. I really like that point of view, and I very much appreciate the support.

*hugs*

[tammaiya.livejournal.com]

Well, I can't say I'm ashamed of being gay, but I never do those things either. I joined the gay, lesbian, transgender and queer club at uni at the beginning of last year, but only because it was free and my friends were too. I got lube. It amused me. XD And I never went to any of the events afterwards. *shrug*

Of course, part of that IS because I have a girlfriend. And when it comes to that... well, my siblings know, and I think my brother would mock me just as much whether I was going out with a boy or a girl. He really doesn't care. My sister can't quite seem to grasp it, but her objection seems to be more that Mari and I grew up together than that Mari's a girl. I don't know if my father knows; I haven't told him, but sometimes he drops comments that make me wonder. I tried to tell my mum years ago, but I think she's in denial about it and I just let it be because it's easier for both of us that way.

As for other people I know... well, all my school friends know. We had a very close-knit group, and when you've got two members of said group dating, hey. Like you're going to hide that. But they're all very good friends, and even the more conservative girls (all-girls school) were supportive. Once I went to uni, I was more cautious about it, but I think that more about being sensible than being ashamed. I'm not a stereotypical shout-it-out gay-lifestyle kind of person, and so I don't necessarily want to make the kind of friends who are. But as it so turned out, by the end of the year I'd told my three best uni friends anyway; Dani when I was drunk and I mentioned something about not taking anyone to the Law ball because I had a girlfriend and she didn't enjoy things like that, Adrian when I wasn't sure whether or not he may be interested in me (it was probably all ego on my part, but it pays to be cautious with these things) and Tristan because he's very left-wing and I figured it was safe.

So. Uh. There's no real point to this except more support, I guess. :D;

[agonistes]

I read the blog of a guy who goes by the name of Bitter Pill, but who is a (fairly successful) screenwriter.

He hates Pride.

Hates it.

Because if you're gay, lesbian, bisexual, straight, queer, questioning, whatever -- it's not anybody's business.

Also, he hates parades, gay clubs, and crowds.

You don't have to be noisy about your sexuality in order to have good sex. :)

(You also don't have to be noisy during sex to have good sex, but this is another subject entirely.)

[villainny.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

Thanks, darlin'.

[in-the-blue.livejournal.com]

And no one says you have to be loud. Because that would be pretending to be something you're not, too, and I don't know you very well but what I do know? I think you're great just the way you are, for what it's worth.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

It's not anybody's business, I'll agree with you there. It does make it a little bit easier, though. Have you read Terry Pratchett? When he mentions that the majority of dwarf courtship is the tactful finding out of what gender the other dwarf is? I guess it's kind of like that. Bands and badges and marches are something of an indication of who you won't get ostracized for approaching, I guess.

I suspect people would react better than I think they would. My mum did, for one, and she always comes across as pretty homophobic. I mean, sometimes she rings up and lists male celebrities down the phone at me, in an attempt I suppose to convert me straight, but that's about it. She still loves me. And the people I have remembered to tell are generally pretty cool about it. Just, the idea of approaching a girl in any kind of an intentional manner actually scares me.

That said, it's not as though approaching blokes is any easier.

Possibly I'm just hopeless. XD

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Pfft.

XD

[soupytwist.livejournal.com]

(Hee, wow, how about that - me too. ;) )

And since you don't think it's a bad thing, I'm suspecting your sense that it' slightly odd is maybe just as much a sense that it's not the majority... which from my admittedly small sampling of people isn't a weird thing to think at all. And I would totally advise being a slasher to anybody even slightly queer, just cause of the fun ways to meet people I think it's got to be right up there with the best. :) *does little omg I met the Nny! dance*