(no subject)

[nny]

When I move, I'm gonna look for somewhere, wherever I end up, I can do an English Lit A-level. Because last time I did English Lit was when I was 16, and it Wasn't Terribly In-Depth. I wouldn't know where to start, character analysis-wise. I play and I write by instinct, which is why neither my writing nor my RPing is terribly inspired - I don't reveal anything new about my characters. I think I have character voice down (and it was hard to type that. Admitting a strength, *GASP!*) but as far as arcs or foreshadowing or any such things... not a clue.

*ponders*

Are there any books I can look into, as far as that goes?

It aggravates me, the gaps in my learning. And there're so many, I don't know quite where to start with filling them in.

Comments

[campkilkare]

I don't think you have to be able to cerebrally analyze your characters to bring depth and inspiration to your playing of them. You're definitely selling yourself short on the revealing new things front. Any time you fill in holes based on what seems reasonable, you're working from the characterization backwards, even if it's intuitively, and you've done a lot of good work in that way.

For instance, the manicure OOM with Aziraphael--there's no real canonical depth or insight to what he does all day. It's very vague. You filled in that gap very smoothly. If you're doing it right, that kind of thing is almost seamless, and you may not even realize you're doing it.

--John

[villainny.livejournal.com]

That means a hell of a lot. Thank you.

[campkilkare]

Another thing that comes to mind is the discussion of how Aziraphael's sort of permanent befuddledness makes him a comforting figure, in contrast to Crowley's cool veneer making him a better tempter. And then in the Ritz OOM, the narrative discussion of which came first, the personality or the act, or if there's even a difference for ethereals.

One way to build off that kind of thing into character arcs and stuff is to look back over the character's history for common motifs. Even if you were acting intuitively, if you're good (and you are), recurring things will emerge. And then you might want to toss a few more problems like that at your character, with various twists to try and give him a new perspective, or just to show that he's changed. Threads or events that went differently than you might have expected, IC or OOC, are a good place to look.

For instance: Eddie, canonically, has a pretty explosive temper, and I've always played that in bar. At least twice (once with Ted, once with the Serenity crew) that ended up having serious negative repercussions, and because of that, I've felt comfortable scaling his temper back and acknowledging in the narration that he's angry, but that he's seen what losing it can do, and he's trying.

Of course, the interesting thing is that with Aziraphael, you probably have to pace yourself, character developmentwise, considering that the timescale of his life is so different.

[illmantrim.livejournal.com]

*will look for books that might help.*

I think you write pretty well and it takes a lot to admit it when you feel you have a weakness. Writing workshops with actual writers sometimes help. the good ones will cut through the bullshit for you.

I hope you can find what ytou are looking for.

Also, one thing you reminded me of with your last paragraphsentences there - many writers have huge gaps in their skills and use proofreaders and editors and experts to consult with on a regular basis for the knowledge. Which isnt to say you shouldnt go after it yourself, just that ypu arent alone, amongst even the pros.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

the good ones will cut through the bullshit for you.

These are nigh-on impossible to find in my experience. :(

[ashen_key]

I play and I write by instinct...but as far as arcs or foreshadowing or any such things... not a clue.

This is why I'm doing Creative Writing as my elective at Uni, to try and get that part down. I know this doesn't help you, as far as books go, but you're in the same boat as me and other people.

BUT, I wouldn't say that you don't reveal anything new...that would suggest palying writing by rote, not instinct.

[kenovay.livejournal.com]

If you're thinking of doing an English A-Level, I would like to point veeeery quietly away from straight Lit to Lit/Lang. Because I am an EVANGELIST. It's about fifty times more demanding than straight Lit or straight Lang, if you do it properly, because you have to be able to narrow in on the tiny linguistic details and step out to look at the big literary context, and is just a fabulous course.

If Lit's what you wanna do, go with it, though. Do happymaking things, my son. Also, are you old enough to have missed out on the whole AS/A2 thing? Because if so I will WATCH AND CACKLE. God, I hate what this Goverenment's done to the exam system.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

I missed out on AS/A2, dear. I have a degree in English Language, so I don't think Lang/Lit will do an awful lot for me - I'm probably going to be bringing a linguist's perspective into it in any case.

[kenovay.livejournal.com]

Mwa-ha-ha, have fun, in that case. Although, it may not be so bad for you 'cause it won't be full-time, so the timing might be more flexible.

This is probably true. I am evangelistic enough to be like "NONONO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW GOOD A COURSE IT IS!!!!" but I will keep that under wraps, 'cause I think you're right.

[sophistry]

Well, hell, last time I did anything vaguely English Lit-related was when I was seventeen, so.

And honestly, the very best way to approach character/story/thematic analysis? Is just sit around and talk about it. You'd be amazed at some of the stuff I didn't even realise I knew until the topic/question was being randomly tossed around in one chat or another.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

You're 19, dear. I'm 23. :P

I don't... I get intimidated in discussions. I heckle and make jokes because I don't feel intelligent enough to participate. I don't have as much time as I used to for chats, and I don't process well unless I get to dogear things and come back to them. So. It's possibly not the best forum for me.

(I'm working on the chat thing, though. I'm getting better.)

[la-rainette.livejournal.com]

You know, there's nothing wrong with that if that's the way you function. I tend to process things that way too: sometimes I'm talking with someone and feeling that something is off in their argument but I can't for the life of me figure out what it is, and then, two hours or sometimes as whole week later, aha, there it is and I know exactly what I SHOULD have said (but didn't realize at the time).

So just listening in to conversations between other people makes you go forward sometimes. And if dogearing and going back and letting your thoughts mature quietly is your way to do it, there's nothing wrong with that. :)

[chains-of-irony.livejournal.com]

I just did an English Lit. A-level. I always got the impression your degree was in English Lit., though? Obviously not!

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Language, unfortunately. The things I know about Systemic Functional Grammar would fill a tea cup, but somehow I managed to blag a degree in it. YAY ME!

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

If you are intending to do this to improve your writing abilities I would suggest steering clear of E.Lit altogether and going straight for a Creative Writing course (this is what I did my paltry degree in - you think my writing is bad NOW, you should have seen it before we spent three yers tearing it up). Everyone in the world has suggested Robert McKee's Story to help with story structure, although it's not much help if you want to do anything more inventive than basic three-act-Hollywood structure.

In a bizarre twist I found How To Write For Animation by Jeffrey Scott to be really useful for help with condensed plotting in prose.

Er ... I can waffle about this for absolutely effin' ages, so I shall shut up now.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

I'm actually considering an MA in creative writing. I just think an english lit A-level, while I'm saving up the cash, couldn't hurt. And it'd interest me. Probably.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

So am I. *sniffle* Although I suspect I will never be able to afford it, hence the sad noises. English Lit A-levels are apparently hella variable. Mine was very, very good, but this seems to have been more related to the teachers than the course.