(no subject)

[nny]

Okay. I'm asking for trouble here, I do know this. And I'm not going to get upset, or at least I'm not going to get upset enough to stop writing 'cos sadly it'd appear that's impossible.

You're welcome to post anonymously here.

I'd really appreciate perspectives on what is wrong with my writing.

Seriously.



I know I can write reasonably well. Not memorably, though, is the thing. My fics seem to be vaguely diverting, but people don't seem to think of me as a writer, really. Of course, it's possible that I'm totally off base here, but it's hard to step outside the issue here and look at it dispassionately, which is rather the problem. Anything said would help - tell me to write longer fics, tell me to stop having Crowley call Aziraphale 'angel', tell me my pacing sucks or that I should really get my fics beta read more often... anything at all.

I'd really appreciate it.

:D?

Comments

Icon not to be taken seriously. :P

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

I don't do post anonymously because ... er ... you hate me anyway, so a bit of grumbling about writing shouldn't alter anything. (Alternatively, because I am a big girl and can handle being flamed by your friends)

What makes a fic memorable is not just the proportion of quotable lines or exciting turns of phrase (c.f Shoebox), it's what happens and the clarity with which it happens. The fics of yours that I've read have been engaging and perfectly charming slice-of-life snapshots - they're pretty, they convey character and mood and location excellently, but nothing happens. A lot of them read like beginnings or middles, and it's frustrating in those cases because you find yourself going "... I WAS JUST GETTING IN TO THAT. NOW WHAT? THAT CAN'T BE IT."

One of my favourite short stories is "Foreign Parts" by Neil Gaiman, and one of the reasons I love it is because it's very easy to say what it's about: A young man gets a non-sexually transmitted STD that takes over his personality. Being able to say what a story is about easily helps people to remember it. With the memory of the plot comes the memory of the words and, quite frequently, the desire to read it again, you savvy?

(I realise you probably know all this, but I'm bored and wish to babble)

I don't think length is the problem, and as non-fandom human I don't think I'm qualified to comment on characterisation or use of epithets or ... but I do think that you need to step away from your safe space of vignettes and experiment with progression and structure if you want to continue improving.

I could, of course, be horrifically wrong.

Re: Icon not to be taken seriously. :P

[villainny.livejournal.com]

That's a pretty accurate summary, actually. It's weird because whenever I'm thinking about original fic it's always in terms of what happens. Fanfic tends to be an excuse to use the line that the character's saying in my head, or one particular mental image rather than it is about plot, because the plot's already there, in the canon.

Thank you for the perspectives, that actually helps.

And I don't hate you, idiot.

Re: Icon not to be taken seriously. :P

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

Then I'd quite like to see more original fic from you. :P Especially as original characters can be intimately associated with the person who writes them, and you get this whole "guaranteed quality of story" thing. ;)

Glad they do. Always amazed when the years and years of "blah blah change this and that" actually turn out to be useful!

[josepheenie.livejournal.com]

sorry hun, head is all messed up today. might post about that later. can't think straight. how are you?

[villainny.livejournal.com]

Oh, sore, as usual. How's yourself?

[josepheenie.livejournal.com]

could do with a hug

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

Well, I enjoy your writing when I read it, but other than Milliways you actually write stuff fairly rarely, you know. And when you do, it tends to be -- not always, but tends to be -- short, contemplative pieces. Contemplative is fine and valid, and you do it very well, but it doesn't interest me personally (this isn't just you -- other BNFs in the GO fandom do similar things and I'm utterly nonplussed by their writing too). And sometimes you're writing fic in fandoms I don't read :/

Good Omens, which I tend to think of as your "main" fandom, is also very difficult to work in because it's a very finite book. There are really only two characters that are interesting in-situ (the Them are fun but limited, and aging them up creates its own issues). The universe is very...complete, I guess. It's hard to imagine a multiple-book series based on it, you know?

I guess before I can give you any really constructive feedback I want to know why you ask. Do you want to write stuff that will get more attention within fandom, or do you want to write pieces that will help you figure out how to be a better writer? The two are sometimes mutually exclusive, though not always -- and the advice for each differs greatly.

[villainny.livejournal.com]

I want to be a better writer. If that gets me fandom kudos on the way that'd be grand if only because I have a bit of a fragile ego (who'da thunk?) and I find myself more willing to write for an audience I know is there, y'know? Writing original fic has no immediate reaction to it, and therefore I get worried and give up.

Again with the plotting stuff. I guess it's true, I have done enough experimenting with vignettes, really.

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's tough to keep writing when you're not getting much/any feedback, in part because you don't feel like there's any pressure to keep going on a storyline. Pressure is not always negative -- it helps enormously when you want to complete something and you've hit a hard part.

I don't think you necessarily need to write original fic to improve your writing. I do think that, if you want to be a better writer, the thing you need to work on most is plot. Length will come naturally if you have an engaging plot, because the more complex and entertaining the plot, the longer it will take you to express all the subtleties and nuances of it. That's just -- well, it's like the laws of physics. It's universally applicable. And the longer you spend in a single story, the more you will "own" the characters -- which is one step closer to original fic.

Now, this is not to say that I myself am a good person to talk to about plot. I suck at plots. What I'm good at is creating a situation that can't be solved quickly, thus REQUIRING plot. And it's not easy. Rex Stout said that to maintain one's integrity for the hundred thousand words needed to write a book is nearly impossible; what he meant was that it's very hard not to take the easy/dramatic/romantic route out of a story.

Okay, enough of my two cents (two dollars, by now :D). I'd like to help if you want it -- you know you have only to ask. :)

[gramarye1971]

*clears throat a little tentatively*

Looking at what apiphile said, and looking over some of your writings as well, I think a lot of salient points were made. I don't always view writing improvement as a matter of writing longer fics -- though I did cut my own writing teeth on my thirty-plus chapter Crossover Monstrosity -- but as being able to answer the questions that canon always leaves one with. If you can look at something you've written and say 'yes, that's answered that question I was wondering about' then I don't think it matters how long the fic happens to be. Some kinds of fic challenges (the 'Five Things That Never Happened To...' kind, for example) almost force you to change perspective for each thing and answer that question in a number of different ways.

Also, and I would ask this of any fic writer who writes in a fandom where certain character pairings tend to be implicitly or explicitly viewed as canon, het or slash or whatever...can you write a fic without that pairing in mind? Without even the tiniest little hint of anything that veers toward PersonA/PersonB? I've discussed this with other writers before, the habit of taking a relationship as a given and hanging stories on it like Christmas ornaments -- which is not necessarily bad in and of itself, but it doesn't push the writer to think around the 'ship.

That said, I don't want to say that there's anything WRONG with your writing. You don't need "fixing"; you certainly don't make me cringe to read something you've written. Far from it. If you feel like you've hit an impasse in how you write, then you've done a very brave and sensible thing by asking for outside comments. So take whatever I've said with a spoonful of salt until you see if it makes sense for you.

*snuggles*

[villainny.livejournal.com]

I will say more later, but for right now I will just say that I really wish I'd got to spend time with you at millicon. :/

[gramarye1971]

Me, too. *clings*

[soupytwist.livejournal.com]

The more I think about this, the more it sounds to me like this means you're ready and wanting to branch out, try something different. And I can't wait to see what you do, either. :)

[midnight-violet.livejournal.com]

have a stab at your stuff. your fic is fabulous but when you want to keep it in character and the plot's already there, its going to confine you. i know you sad you want to keep the epic ideas for when you can do them justice-maybe try some of the exercises in that Writer's Block thing?
i've read bits of yours that have the character/author voice down pat, but also manage to sound like you, and im really intrigued to see what happens when you give that voice a chance to run free, as it were.

speaking as someone who knows next to nothing bout fic but what you showed me, you understand:)

[foreverdirt.livejournal.com]

When I read your writing, I read the next sentence for the joy of the writing, not because I want to know what happens next.